The Section 194 Committee has ruled that former public protector Thuli Madonsela will not testify before a parliamentary inquiry.
Proceedings into the fitness of Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane to hold office continue on Wednesday, where a parliamentary inquiry is scheduled to hear evidence from Madonsela.
Resident Mkhwebane was sent to the committee and asked to testify on matters relating to the Vrede dairy farm and the CIEX-Absa report.
Madonsela’s affidavit confusion
At the meeting, Mpofu complained about the legal team not having time to prepare Madonsela’s testimony.
While he did not dispute the evidence Madonsela led, Mpofu said there was confusion over the former public protector’s statement.
He said Madonsela filed another longer affidavit than the one sent to Mkhwebane’s legal team last week.
“What happens when it’s our turn to question him is another matter,” the lawyer told the committee on Wednesday morning.
After a brief adjournment, Parliament’s legal adviser, Fatima Ebrahim told the committee that Madonsela’s new affidavit was not nine pages long as Mpofu had claimed.
Ebrahim pointed out that Madonsela had attached two different affidavits containing minor changes.
“So the one without change and the other that has changed by hand,” he said.
Also read: Mpofu says blames Mkhwebane for delay in Madonsela’s testimony
“In defense of Mpofu, when [the documents] come we are all confused. In terms of changes made, only grammatical and editorial type changes.
However, Mpofu said there were multiple versions of Madonsela’s statement.
He said there should be a new statement.
“What is happening now is not only confusing, but possibly illegal because not only is Professor Madonsela changing her statement, now there are three versions of her statement,” Mpofu said.
“Version three is the one that came this morning that was assigned yesterday and is worse. It seems that version three is a typed version of version two.
“There is something wrong and possibly illegal because the version says it was signed in Stellenbosch, but it was assigned to Northriding, Johannesburg, which cannot be done.”
‘little challenge’
Section 194 Committee chairman Qubudile Dyantyi said Mpofu’s concerns were “noted” and agreed to reschedule Madonsela’s evidence for the following day.
Dyantyi proposed that Madonsela testify next week.
“We will consider Saturday and Sunday to do this [since] he was always available, but his public protector and legal team had prior commitments. The date we want to put here is that they are available all day on Monday and half day on Tuesday.
READ MORE: Madonsela sees ‘no rational connection’ apparent at Mkhwebane hearing
Mpofu welcomed Dyantyi’s decision not to proceed with Madonsela’s evidence, but raised concerns about the suggested date.
“We had a problem with Tuesday [but] we can do it Monday.”
The lawyer also said there was a “slight challenge” to deal with the testimony of the Public Protector’s chief investigator Rodney Mataboge this afternoon.
He pointed out that the legal team requested that Mataboge be called on Wednesday and Thursday, but the committee refused.
“We stopped the preparations because you rejected the proposal,” Mpofu said.
Consultation
The committee discussed the testimony of Madonsela and Mataboge.
ANC MP Bheki Nkosi said the committee should have decided not to hear him because no one wanted to lead evidence.
Democratic Alliance (DA) MP Kevin Mileham said it was unfair to put the burden of leading Madonsela’s testimony on the evidence leader.
“The burden should be on the public defender’s legal team to lead the evidence and then allow it [the evidence leaders] to cross-examine,” Mileham said.
When ANC MP Xola Nqola questioned the relevance of Madonsela’s testimony, she said she was still willing to hear her evidence.
READ MORE: ‘We can’t just save’: Section 194 chairman accused of ‘insulting’ Mkhwebane, Mpofu
Nqola proposed that the chief of evidence prepare Madonsela on behalf of the committee.
“We, as a committee, remain convinced that the evidence of Madonsela’s advocate is relevant, so we are willing to hear the evidence. Let Madonsela be a committee witness.”
African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP) MP Marie Sukers highlighted that Madonsela was invited to give evidence at the request of Mkhwebane and her legal team.
DA MP Mimmy Gondwe added that the committee should “step aside” if it did not have Madonsela as a witness, while United Democratic Movement (UDM) leader Bantu Holomisa wanted her to testify.
See the process below:
Mpofu defended, saying Mkhwebane had never indicated that he did not want Madonsela’s evidence.
“I don’t know if people intentionally want to torture us emotionally,” the lawyer said.
He said the legal team could not lead Madonsela’s evidence because of the statement issue.
“The idea that they are no longer needed must be rejected.”
Regarding the deliberations, Dyantyi said Madonsela’s statement will be taken as written evidence by the committee which means she will not be called at the inquiry.
“[This] help us as a committee to eliminate the proposed oral evidence on Monday and Tuesday because we have that record. The members have accepted that the committee should adopt the cleared witness statements.
But Holomisa denied this.
“I don’t agree with your approach. Why are you hiding him from coming and answering questions verbally?”
A disgruntled Mpofu accused the member of sabotaging the committee.
“This bulldozing approach is not going to end well.”
‘We’re just being bullied now’
Mpofu told the committee that Madonsela’s statement did not “break the surface” on the Vrede and CIEX matters.
“You can throw it in the trash because it doesn’t solve the problem. For our part, we need the evidence of this witness. The evidence of this witness is clearly relevant.
“If it’s going to be summer when we call now, then it’s going to be an issue that needs to be resolved in another forum because we’re being harassed right now.”
He added Mkhwebane would either go to court or “make a new application” to the committee to summon Madonsela.
“We have to exhaust our medicine so you will have a lot more delay in your hands,” Mpofu said.
Meanwhile it was also decided that Mataboge will testify on Wednesday and resume his testimony at 9am on Thursday.